Enterprise= Fox News= Propaganda

[militant]

Doesn't anyone find it strange that the theme to Enterprise only shows American space pioneers? Why leave out the most important historical space age symbols like Sputnik, Mir, and the first humans in space? Instead it's just the space cowboys that were all part of the gigantic waste of tax payer's money known as the space race. I seriously doubt any society capable of interstellar travel would revere a time when billions of dollars were spent on futile campaigns of super-nationalist propaganda that left millions of people in poverty while a couple pricks played golf on the moon.

This is obviously patriotic propaganda trying to show everyone how great our nation is above the rest (like only showing the American flag). But how great can a nation really be when it is willing to ignore its duties of governing and launch into space while there are people left eating out of garbage cans back on earth? Does that type of unnessecary action represent inginuity and the savior of mankind or just another reasoning for its destruction?

I don't mean to come off unamerican. I could care less about any nation. Screw those damn Stalinist Soviets as well! But if you are talking about the true beginnings in the history of space exploration, pretty much nothing that is American would serve any mentioning in future reference. Enterprise is obviously much more biased than any of the other series and I see it as political indoctrination designed to target the nationalist ego's of us free-world slackers. I could see that type of propaganda working on macho war movies but I seriously doubt it will manipulate the ideology of us intelligent treky nerds. Am I right guys?

[LOL]

I never realised the American flag was so offensive to people. But even if it is so what? Enterprise is an American show made in America. Paramount wasn't owned by the UN last time I checked.
So let me get this straight. You like Star Trek but don't agree with space exploration? You don't find that a little odd about yourself?
As for you're opinions about America's role in space exploration, my advice to you is to put the bong down and pick up a history book and actually research the subject.
You seem a little paranoid. A show(an American show) about future space explorers opens by showing some early space explorers and their spacecrafts as well as the HMS Enterprize(British) and suddenly you're being indoctrinated into....what?
Let's make sure and go through every book ever written and every bit of film in existence and remove any trace of an American flag. Would that make you happy?

[MeTeoRSTRiKe]

I don't think he wants to change the show or our history. Militant is merely establishing that Enterprise is overly-nationalistic and is hypocritical to the rest of the Star Trek series because of it.

You may think it's paranoid to say something against the intentions of something as simple as a TV show, but you have to remember that mainstream media has a great influence on democracy and future generations. This of course is no conspiracy. The producers of Enterprise are obviously pro-american, which is predictable among the wealthy individuals that have substantial control over what they want the public to watch. We've seen that type of change in the media when corporations started producing many anti-unionist movies in the 30's when labor unions threatened extremely cheap labor in America. Of course you're going to see this type of corporate consensus on what kind of media they think America's future should be raised on. I doubt it is paranoia to state the obvious.

I agree with Militant's argument about the history of the beginnings of mankind's space exploration. It would be idiotic to leave out any Russian accomplishments if not all. One doesn't need to pickup a book on the subject to know America isn't the first or the only country that has ever launched into space.

[JDformerly known as LOL]

I think where we're having the difference of opinion is that you guys see being pro-American as a bad thing. I don't. The producers of Enterprise are American so I would certainly expect and hope that they would be pro-American as well. (do you want an ANTI - American opening??) I don't see this as some sort of threat. It's just being proud of where you're from.
The Russians beat us into space. Anyone who went to school should know this. Enterprise isn't rewriting history it's just showing our (it's an American show remember) role in it. Like showing the space shuttle Enterprise(ENTERPRISE, get it?. If Russia or China want a show with an opening montage showing their spave achievements, they can make their own show. I wouldn't complain if they were in Enterprise's opening but I'm also not complaining that they AREN'T.
But other than the openeing sequence I don't see the show being nationalistic at all. The episode Judgement was clearly an anti-war episode. Not exactly towing the party line, eh?
I guess we can just agree to disagree on this one guys.

[militant guy]

The thing that is bad about "pro-american" propaganda is that the producers used it to corrupt the show to their interests. Strek Trek should have stayed unbiased to the political opinions of the couple rich guy's running the show. It can begin to be offensive otherwise. An example is how pro-Hitler Henry Ford was, but he never put swastickas on his cars. Nationalism is a major factor in the creation of imperialist policies in our government.

If you disagree with that then consider this. Star Trek shows have always been unbiased to a paticular religion. So what if Senior Moneybags is a born again bible thumper and wants the show to portray Christian or Islamic fundamentals? I'd be pissed! Because there has always been a tradition of secular programming and now some rich prick is going to try to spread propaganda even though many viewers dissend from his opinions. Anti-Americanism is just the same as nationalist propaganda, I would not want that for a theme either. How can you honestly say that this theme is not unusually nationalistic? They never had an American flag in any Star Trek theme before, let alone protagonize it.

Russia and China don't have their own "shows" and either does America. That type of programming is a private industry and is under the subjection of the few people that own it. Simply saying it is an American show doesn't say much if America has no say in it. Episode Judgement's referral to anti-war has nothing to do with being unamerican, is this not a democracy?

[JD]

*sigh* I can see this little debate is going to go absolutely nowhere. But what the heck, this is kinda fun...

"protagonize it"?? Ok, next time you watch the show have a stop watch and tell me just exactly how long the flag is on screen. Oh, and how many lines does that flag have?
It's the space shuttle Enterprise, and yes, it has an American flag on it. It's not made up by the people at Paramount studios, it's a REAL thing. The starship Enterprise is NOT real and it has no flag on it.
You seem to have a HUGE problem with money and those who have it. Can I assume then, that you work for free, live in a cave, and live off the land? No? Didn't think so. If you're gonna preach it, you should live it. For the record, I'm not wealthy and I'm not religious.
If Enterprise suddenly became a religious show, I probably wouldn't watch it much. That would be my choice. But y'know what? There are LOT'S of people who would like that sort of thing. It's not "propaganda", it's catering to a certain audience. Last time I checked people were still FREE to do that sort of thing.
And I never said Star Trek was a state owned property(if China had one it would be, though). I said it was an American show. It has American producers and a largely American cast.
I've figured out your definition of propaganda by the way: Any thing you don't agree with.
Freedom of speech is there to protect the things you DON"T agree with. It is not the job of Star Trek to not offend Mr. Militant or me or anybody else for that matter. They are free to make any show they want to, and if you don't like it, tough luck.
I liked the Judgement episode. And yes this is a democracy and if they want to make an anti-war episode they can do so. You just proved my earlier point. You think it's fine to have an anti-war episode but not to show an American flag because THAT would be *gasp* pushing a particular political view. You only see it as "propaganda" if it disagrees with YOUR political agenda. But if you like whats being said suddenly it's democracy. Please tell me you see this flaw in your arguement.

I was right about the wsws thing. That's funny. Without a doubt the most unbiased source for hard news on the planet. They truly check and double check all of their "facts".(insert sarcasm here:))

[Militant again]

We are drifting into two different arguments. Although it is obvious that I invited it. If I just wanted to state my general protest then maybe this wouldn't have happened. First, you say nationalist TV is fine then you say Enterprise is not nationalistic. I'm saying that the show wasn't meant to be nationalistic, and it is stupid of the producers to change it because nationalism is much more popular now after war and such. Yes, they have every right to change the show. So what? Are you afraid I am promoting a violent insurrection to establish unbaised programming?

Don't be confused by my political tone (on this issue anyways). It is in my interests to say they screwed with a good show for what they think is popular. And frankly, I find it retarded. Outside of being class conscious, I also despise mainstream garbage like American Idol that always throw in pro-war/ pro-military messages to make us think that is what American culture is. Since when did stupid become cool again? Sure, it may be american culture now. But was it democratically imposed on the youth? It is like pop culture (profits over creativity) and I fear to see it imposed in Star Trek further. How many super-models on Star Trek do we have to see before we realize this is Baywatch not classical sci-fi? Roddenbery depicted the Earth with a socialist government in every series and if anyone knows anything about socialist realism, it is that it wouldn't emphasize any one nation. It is the show's tradition to not boost any particular political stance (for the theme at least).

So it is not just adding nationalist sentiments, but the act of dephiling someone's art for profit that has me pissed. An example of repressive movements; The KKK used to be a popular movement back in the 20's and I would hate it if the ultra-conservatives running the show would add racist propaganda if it were popular today. That is not the case, but it is the principle that I am agruing against. Yes, it is free speech, but it is also a threat to equality and progressive change in society.

Now we are off on another topic. Saying something is right because it is freedom of speech doesn't rationalize its destructive influence. Truth is not a matter of opinion. There are people born into suffering and oppression from policies that allow such things as sweatshops, limited health care, and privatizing foreign resources like oil. With installed and corrupt leaders (Shah of Iran, Saddam, and many others) those people have no choice in the matter. So why do you tell me to shut-up and do as I preach? Why shouldn't I practice my free speech and tell people that allow these policies like you to reflect?

I can't live without my government for very long. So why can't I try to change it provide for more people and allow the public's wealth to be used for social programs instead of being concentrated under the control of a minority of individuals? I know something is wrong when I see people eating out of garbage cans while people with more money than you imagine are pregnant dog ing about being taxed. Don't get me wrong. It isn't really the fault of the wealthy that our policies allow this injustice. It is our fault for allowing it. Just like it was our fault for living in a monarchy. A true democracy can develop beyond the machinery of its economic influences. If it doesn't, well than that's not saying much for mankind's future.

www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm check this site out if you even care.

[JD]

"First you say nationalist TV is fine then you say Enterprise isn't nationalistic"
Yup. I have no problem with a show being patriotic(I also have no problem with shows that AREN'T patriotic). And no the content of Enterprise is not nationalistic. As I've already said repeatedly, there is an American flag seen briefly during the opening credits. If this two or three seconds(if even that long) of having to look at an American flag is enough to bring you whole socialist world crashing down around you, maybe you should take a second look at your ideology.
"So why do you tell me to shut up and do as I preach?"
I didn't tell you to shut up. I like hearing different points of view. I just don't like "do as I say and not as I do" arguements.
And I'm fully aware that Star Trek is a sort of Marxist utopia. And as far as I can tell it still is. I've never heard characters refer to things like ELECTIONS. It's easy for them to do since they never have to go into any great detail about how the government works on the show. It's just entertainment for me. The Dune series has a feudal system. I don't have to agree with a particular form of government to enjoy stories set in that framework.

"Are you afraid I am promoting a violent insurrection to establish unbiased programing?"
LOL. No. Where'd that come from?

You keep refering to it as "propaganda" or defacto propaganda" but yet you don't seem to think things that share your view points are propaganda.
When Star Trek had no flag in it and had it's socialistic society did you consider that propaganda?
I looked at the link briefly, but I don't have much time tonight. I'll check it out in the next few days.

[killer12382]

First: It's a TV show, really, just a show.
Secondly: It was made in America for an American audience.
Thirdly: If you think Enterprise is nationalistic, you must have hated the original series, as Kirk was a gung ho American with American ideals.
To sum it up.....Get over it or go ahead and watch the great Sci Fi shows on PBS.

[Nick]

millitant "But if you are talking about the true beginnings in the history of space exploration, pretty much nothing that is American would serve any mentioning in future reference."

I think you need to go back to school for a simple history lesson before you make comments such as these, or simply pick up a book about early American space missions. The Americans will get a major mention in future history books regarding space exploration for one simple reason. There were only two nations who participated in the "space race". One of them happened to be America, and the other was the Soviets. If you look into more detail about space history you will see several missions involving orbiters and planetary landers that most people never heard of. Most of them failed, but enough of them succeeded to be considered major achievments. Take for instance the Lunar Suveyor mission, the first craft to soft land on another planetary body. Or, the Voyager series which included two orbiters that were the first to reach the outer gas giants. Don't forget of course telescopic based observations which include hubble, the keck observatory, and the VLA. All of these are American projects and in many cases were the first of their kind. I didn't even mention the fact that we were also the first nation to land a human on another planetary body, and the first to land a rover on Mars. I agree that the Soviets should be mentioned as equals when considering the space race but in the context of early space exploration, America has far exceeded any nation (the era that we are still in). One more thing, you definately shouldn't make statements such as, the lunar astronauts just played golf on the Moon. This just shows how naive you are about the subject. Keep in mind there were 6 landing missions to the moon, they returned several hundred kilograms of lunar samples, determined the age of the Earth-Moon system, and discovered the fact that meteorite impacts are a large factor in the evolution of planets. Its information like that that improves our society and the human condition as a whole. That is something Star Trek is all about, and America, although not a perfect nation, is the best at.

[WillCAD]

Hm, all-American, eh?

Well, certainly the show reflects the rather limited world-view of the Southern California Hollywood mindset, as almost all TV does when produced in Hollywood, but all-American? I think not.

Last time I checked, Archer and Tucker were the only Americans among the primary cast. Reed is Brittish, Mayweather is a Space Boomer (born and raised in space, never lived on a planet until he went to Starfleet Acadeemy), Hoshi Sato is Japanese (though not played by a Japanese actor, strangly), and Phlox and T'Pol were not Human, hence not from Earth, hence not American.

Yes, the opening montage of the show does have a lot of American images in it, but it also includes images of the International Space Station, a joint collaberation among many nations, and the Lunar colonies, which according to Trek cannon were also a product of many nations.

My national ideology is perfectly intact after watching Enterprise. I am still proud of my country's many impressive and historic accomplishments in space exploration, while I also acknowlede those of the Soviets, the Chinese, the Japanese, and the ESA.

I am also sick to death of the "our country spends money on [war, space, tv, whatever cause you happen to despise] while people are starving" arguement. No nation, no state, no economic or political system in Human history has EVER eliminated poverty among it's population. If we put any kind of accomplishment on hold till poverty is eliminated, we'd be in a new Dark Age, because poverty will NEVER be eliminated from Human society, nor will nationalism, greed, racism, religious fanaticism, or class elitism. All of these negative things are part of the Human psyche and always will be. Our accomplishments in space are simply that much more impressive when you consider that they occured despite all those negatives.

In short, grow up, you liberal Commie pinko disloyal un-American Marxist bleeding-heart traitor, and realize that one of many reasons why you are even around to pregnant dog about this country is this country and its flawed history and imperfect systems. They ain't perfect, but they work, and they work better than anything else the Human race has ever come up with, at least so far.

[00Schneider]

Some of you guys mentioned the simple lession in school about space exploration. Well, I think some of you never visited this lesson.
Does anybody have ever heard names like "Wernher von Braun" or "Hermann Oberth"?